Editor's note: This transcript contains explicit language and frank descriptions of sexual and bodily functions. The most graphic words and passages have been removed. The transcript was provided by former Los Angeles prosecutor John W. Miner, who was head of the District Attorney's medical-legal section when Marilyn Monroe died. He says the transcript was based on tapes Monroe recorded at her home for her psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson. Miner says he compiled the transcript after Greenson played him the tapes during an interview he conducted as part of the investigation into her death.

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Dear Doctor:

You have given me everything. Because of you I can now feel what I never felt before. She comes by herself and with somebody else. So now I am a whole woman (pun intended — like Shakespeare). So now I have control-- control of myself--control of my life.

What can I give you. Not money. I know that from me that means nothing to you. Not my body. I know your professional ethics and faithfulness to your wonderful wife make that impossible. What I am going to give you is my idea that will revolutionize psychoanalysis.

Isn't it true that the key to analysis is free association. Marilyn Monroe associates. You, my doctor, by understanding and interpretation of what goes on in my mind get to my unconscious which makes it possible for you to treat my neuroses and for me to overcome them. But when you tell me to relax and say whatever I am thinking, I blank out and have nothing to say; that's what you and Dr. Freud call resistance. So we talk about other things and I answer your questions as best I can. You are the only person in the world I have never told a lie to and never will.

Oh yes, dreams. I know they are important. But you want me to free associate about the dream elements. I have the same blanking out. More resistance for you and Dr. Freud to complain about.

I read his "Introductory Lectures," God, what a genius. He makes it so understandable. And he is so right. Didn't he say himself that Shakespeare and Dostoievski had a better understanding of psychology than all the scientists put together. Damn it, they do.

You told me to read Molly Bloom's mental meanderings (I can use words, can't I) to get a feeling for free association. It was when I did that I got my great idea.

As I read it something bothered me. Here is Joyce writing what a woman thinks to herself . Can he, does he really know her innermost thoughts. But after I read the whole book, I could better understand that Joyce is an artist who could penetrate the souls of people, male or female. It really doesn't matter that Joyce doesn't have ... or never felt a menstrual cramp. Wait a minute. As you must have guessed I am free associating and you are going to hear a lot of bad language. Because of my respect for you, I've never been able to say the words I'm really thinking when we are in session. But now I am going to say whatever I think, no matter what it is.

I can do that because of my idea which, if you'll be patient, I'll tell you about. That's funny. I ask you to be patient, but I am your patient. Yet to be patient and to be a patient makes a kind of Shakespearean sense, doesn't it

Back to Joyce. To me Leopold Bloom is a central character. He is the despised Irish Jew, married to an Irish Catholic woman. It is through them Joyce develops much of what he wants to say. Do you agree that the scene where Bloom is looking at the little girl on the swing is the most erotic in the book?

What is a Jew. In my business I have met and ... more Jews that I can count, and boy have I been screwed by some of them.

There are those who, I suppose, look Jewish but so do Arabs; there are others who are more blond and blue-eyed than Hitler ever was. And some in between that you can't tell if they are Jewish or not.

How do you think Hitler knew who were Jews to be killed. Couldn't be by looks alone. I have met too many German Jews who sure could be Hitler's Aryans by their looks.

I couldn't tell if you're Jewish by looking at you. Same with women.

Keep getting sidetracked. Well, that's what free association is.

OK, my idea! To start with there is the doctor and the patient. I don't like the word, analysand. It makes it seem like treating a sick mind is different from treating a sick body. However, you and Dr. Freud say the mind is part of the body. That makes the person getting treated a patient.

I'll bet Gertrude Stein would say a patient is a patient, is a patient. See, free association can be fun.

Anyway, you are in his office and the Doctor says I want you to say whatever you are thinking no matter what it is. And you can't think of a damn thing. How many times after a session I would go home and cry because I thought it was my fault.

While reading Molly's blathering, the IDEA came to me. Get a tape recorder. Put a tape in. Turn it on. Say whatever you are thinking like I am doing now. It's really easy. I'm lying on my bed wearing only a brassiere. If I want to go to the refrig or the bathroom, push the stop button and begin again when I want to.

And I just free associate. No problem. You get the idea, don't you. Patient can't do it in Doctor's office. Patient is at home with tape recorder. Patient free associates sans difficulty. Patient sends tape to Doctor. After he listens to it, Patient comes in for a session. He asks her questions about it, interprets it. Patient gets treated. Oh yes, she can put her dreams on the tape too — right when she has them. You know how I would forget what I dreamed or even if I dreamt at all.

Dr. Freud said dreams are the via regia to the unconscious and so I'll tell you my dreams on tape.

OK, Dr. Greenson. You are the greatest psychiatrist in the world. You tell me. Has Marilyn Monroe invented an important way to make psychoanalysis work better. After you listen to my tapes and use them to treat me, you could publish a paper in a scientific journal, Wouldn't that be sensational. I don't want any credit. I don't want to be identified in your paper. It's my present to you. I'll never tell anybody about it. You will be the first to let your profession know how to lick resistance. Maybe you could patent the idea and license it to your colleagues. Ask Micky.

You are the only person who will ever know the most private, the most secret thought of Marilyn Monroe. I have absolute confidence and trust you will never reveal to a living soul what I say to you.

What I told you is true when I first became your patient. I had never had an orgasm. I well remember you said an orgasm happens in the mind, not the genitals. ...

It doesn't bother me, but this damn free association could drive somebody crazy. Oh, oh, crazy makes me think about my mother. I am not going to free associate about her right now. Let me finish my thoughts about orgasms.

You said there was an obstacle in my mind that prevented me from having an orgasm; that it was something that happened early in my life about which I felt so guilty that I did not deserve to have the greatest pleasure there is; that it had to do with something sexual that was very wrong, but my getting pleasure from it caused my guilt That it was buried in my unconscious. Through analysis we would bring it to my conscious mind where we could get to the guilt and free me to be orgasmic. Well, we sure worked it and got nowhere. I'd go home and cry and vomit from the frustration. Then you said for the orgasm problem we'll try a different approach. That you would tell me how to stimulate myself, that when I did exactly what you told me to do I would have an orgasm and that after I did it to myself and felt what it was, I would have orgasms with lovers. What a difference a word makes. You said I would, not I could.

Bless you, Doctor. What you say is gospel to me. By now I've had lots of orgasms. Not only one, but 2 and 3 with a man who takes his time.

I never cried so hard as I did after my first orgasm. It was because of the years I had ...never had an orgasm.

What wasted years. How can I describe to you, a man, what an orgasm feels like to a woman. I'll try.

Think of a light fixture with a rheostat control. As you slowly turn it on, the bulb begins to get bright, then brighter and brighter and finally in a blinding flash is fully lit. As you turn it off it gradually becomes dimmer and at last goes out.

It is so good ... Doctor, I worship you.

I have a dream for you. I dreamt that I was sitting on Clark Gable's lap with his arms around me. He said: "They want me to do a "Gone With the Wind" sequel. Maybe I will if you will be my Scarlett." I woke up crying.

They called him King and God knows he was that. What respect and deference he had from the actors and crew, even that ... Huston. Some day I hope I'll be treated like that. He was Mr. Gable to everybody on the set, but he made me call him Clark.

He had such concern for the animals. Even though there were Humane Society inspectors all over the place, he kept ordering that nobody hurt the horses. Ironical, it was a horse that hurt him. I was told after he was dragged and the horse calmed down, he stroked his muzzle and gave him a piece of sugar.

He was so nice to me and I didn't deserve it. I was having problems with Arthur and being sick and I held up the shooting a lot. Clark protected me from Huston who kept giving me a bad time.

In the kissing scenes, I kissed him with real affection. I didn't want to go to bed with him, but I wanted him to know how much I liked and appreciated him.

He told me he had been a hunter for a long time, but he had decided not to kill animals. He said if he had children, he would teach them to hunt with a camera instead of a gun.

When I came back from a day off the set, he patted my ass and told me if I didn't behave myself, he would give me a good spanking. I looked him in the eye and said: " Don't tempt me," He burst out laughing so hard he was tearing

Because of his performance I've seen "Gone With the Wind's over and over again. He was perfect.

It makes me so mad I could scream. Those Academy ... didn't award him the Oscar. He should have won hands down.

All right that was a long time ago. I must have been about 13. I have never seen a man who was as romantic as he was in that picture.
 

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It was different when I got to know him. Then I wanted him to be my father. I wouldn't care if he spanked me as long as he made up for it by hugging me and telling me I was Daddy's little girl and he loved me. Of course that's fantasy.

Ever since you let me be in your home and meet your family, I've thought about how it would be if I were your daughter instead of your patient. I know you couldn't do it while I'm your patient, but after you cure me, maybe you could adopt me. Then I'd have the father I've always wanted and your wife whom I adore would be my mother, and your children, brothers and sisters.

No, Doctor, I won't push it. But it's beautiful to think about it I guess you can tell I'm crying, I'll stop now for a little bit.

When Clark Gable died, I cried for 2 days straight. I couldn't eat or sleep. It was some comfort to remember I'd make him laugh like that. Is there a God. He must be cruel for not letting Clark live to teach his son to hunt with a camera.

Speaking of Oscars, I would win overwhelmingly if the Academy gave an Oscar for faking orgasms. I have done some of my best acting convincing my partners I was in the throes of ecstasy. If he were alive I'd have Johnny Hyde be the presenter. ...

Johnny Hyde was special. He wasn't a lot to look at. A little shrimp. Little shrimp, is that redundant or tautological. I always get them mixed up. Anyway, he only came up to my chin.

Johnny was a cocky character. There was no better agent in the business. The studio bosses and casting directors respected him. His word was gold. You didn't need any damned lawyers when he made a deal.

... how that man took care of me. He divorced his wife and bought a house for us to live in, bought my clothes, paid my hairdresser and cosmetic bills and medical expenses. He was my agent and got me better parts and more money than I had before.

Funny though. He always took his agent fee. Said it kept me professional and then he'd turn around and spend a fortune on me.

There was a lot of talk that he did all this to get me to marry him. And I probably would have if he wanted me to. But the truth is he thought marriage would hurt my career. He said if I did what he told me, he'd make me a big star...

I was everything to him: wife, mother, sister, daughter, mistress. Nobody will or could love me as much as Johnny H. I loved the little guy, but I was never in love with him. I'd do anything he wanted and I've only skimmed the surface in what I've said. But I just couldn't have the kind of love for him that he had for me.

We both knew he had a bad heart. His doctor told him if he wanted to stay alive, he should stop seeing me and retire from his work, He didn't and died suddenly before he could keep his promise to put me in his will. C'est la vie.

The talk went around that his relationship with me killed Johnny. They are wasting their time trying to make me feel guilty. I gave Johnny the greatest happiness he ever had. He wouldn't have traded a day of it for a year of life.

[Miner notes: Topic: "Taxicab Drivers". Here is what I remember]

(Monroe rhetorically asks Greenson how the most famous woman is the world could go to a strange man and ask him a question. She answers by saying — Use a taxicab driver. She got the idea from reading about or hearing of a Caliph or Sultan who went out incognito among his people to find out what they thought of him. She wanted to take a poll. So she disguised herself with a brunette wig--no make up-- horn rimmed glasses, an amorphous garment and gave the driver $10 to answer the question: Name the woman you would most want to sleep with. She intended a jury of 12, but only asked 9. Six said Marilyn Monroe. She gave the responses of the other 3, but I don't remember them. It excited her that they did not know her identity.)
 

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There's a radio ... trying to restart a fire under the old so called Crawford-Monroe feud. OK, she said some mean things about me a while back. What do I care. I don't know why she did. Crawford and I started out friendly. As always, Shakespeare said it best; "He that takes from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him and make me poor indeed." No, Doctor, I did not look it up. I've memorized a lot of Shakespeare. That reminds me of Prince and the Showgirl.

Olivier came into my dressing room to give me hell for screwing up. I soothed him by telling him I thought his Hamlet was one of the greatest films ever made. You know he won an Oscar for it

But the Prince was a real .... He was superficial -- no, that's not the word — supercilious, arrogant, a snob, conceited. Maybe a little bit anti-Semitic in the sense of some of my best friends are Jews. But, damn him, a great, great actor.

At a party he told a couple of Jewish jokes. Arthur says his Yiddish accent was perfect. I told him Lee Strasberg said I had Shakespeare in me. What did he think. Olivier said, Marilyn, if you worked with Lee harder than you ever worked and get the basics, come to me and I'll help you do it. Here's what you're in for. And Olivier recited Shakespeare for 2 hours. Everything from Hamlet to Shylock. It was magic. I've never heard anything so magnificent. He ended with: "She should have died hereafter. There would have for such a word. Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time. And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle. Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Olivier said: "That says it all," smiled and left. I sat and cried with joy for being so privileged.

Oh yes, Crawford....

We went to Joan's bedroom ... Crawford had a gigantic orgasm and shrieked like a maniac. Credit Natasha. She could teach more than acting.

Next time I saw Crawford she wanted another round. I told her straight out I didn't much enjoy doing it with a woman. After I turned her down, she became spiteful. An English poet best describes it: hath no rage like love to hatred turned; and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned – most people wrongly credit that to Shakespeare. William Congreve is the author. That's me, Marilyn Monroe, the classical scholar.

About enemas. You and Dr. Freud say every child goes through an anal development stage when the child first gets to neural control of the anal sphincters. Dr. Freud says the sexual and the excremental are always mixed together. You told me that childhood experiences during the anal development stage can cause a fixation which play a part in later sexual development. Maybe that happened to me and we'll get at it in analysis. You know I have a very poor memory of my early childhood... I began remembering a little bit about the enemas I had as a child. They were what you and Dr. Freud call repressed memories. I'll work on it and give you another tape.

But Doctor, I don't understand this big taboo about enemas. Most of the actresses I know use them, even some who won't admit it.

Mae West told me she is given an enema every day and she has at least one orgasm a day... Mae says her enemas and orgasms will keep her young until she is 100. I hope she makes it. A nice lady even though she turned down making a picture with me. That just shows how smart she is.

Peter Lawford...says the Queen and noblewomen of the court of Louis XIV were given frequent enemas with by special servants called apothecaries. The purpose was to give them peaches and cream complexions... Something about intestinal toxins getting into the blood. So there you are. Those ladies were doing the intelligent thing. ...

Yes, I enjoy enemas, so what!

But lets get to something serious Doctor, I want you to help me get rid of Murray. While she was giving me an enema last night I was thinking to myself Lady, even though you're very good at this, you've got to go. But how? I can't flat out fire her. Next thing would be a book "Secrets of Marilyn Monroe by her Housekeeper." She'd make a fortune spilling what she knows and she knows too damn much.

How about this- You tell her you have a seriously sick and suicidal patient or locate one somehow. That the patient is in urgent need of Murray's services. I graciously with tears in my eyes agree to part with her. I'll give her a substantial severance bonus, but she'll have to sign a contract not to write or give interviews about me. Ask Micky if a contract like that can be made to stick. -

Doctor, the fact is we just plain don't like each other. I can't put up with her insolence and disregard for anything I ask her to do. If you have a better idea please let me know what it is.

Another problem that is bothering me. A...named Slatzer is running around saying awful lies about being my husband and what I am like in bed. I asked Frank Sinatra what I could do. He said, Marilyn baby, ignore it. If you take on one of these ... you make him bigger and yourself smaller. I suppose if anyone knows Frank should. He is a man at the top of his profession and is a fine actor as well. (You know, he got an Oscar for "From Here to Eternity"). He has helped more people anonymously than anybody else. And the miserable ... press smears him with lies about his being involved with the Mafia and gangsters. And Frank just takes it.

What a wonderful friend he is to me. I love Frank and he loves me. It is not the marrying kind of love. It is better because marriage can't destroy it. How well I know. Marriage destroyed my relationship with two wonderful men.

Joe D. loves Marilyn Monroe and always will. I love him and always will. But Joe couldn't stay married to Marilyn Monroe, the famous movie star. Joe has an image in his stubborn Italian head of a traditional Italian wife. She would have to be faithful, do what he tells her, devote all of herself to him. Doctor, you know that's not me. There is no way I could stop being Marilyn Monroe and become someone else to save our marriage. It didn't take too long before we both realized that and ended our marriage. But we didn't end our love for each other. Any time I need him, Joe is there. I couldn't have a better friend.

It's different with Arthur. Marrying him was my mistake, not his. He couldn't give me the attention, warmth and affection I need. It's not in his nature. Arthur never credited me with much intelligence. He couldn't share his intellectual life with me. As bed partners we were so-so. He was not that much interested. You know I think his little Jewish father had more genuine affection for me than Arthur did.

I loved the little Jew and his quaint Jewishness. But the Jewish religion never got to me ... Maybe he is a fine creative writer, I suppose so.

Arthur didn't know film and how to write for it. Misfits was not a great film because it wasn't a great script .Gable, Monroe, Clift, Wallach, Huston. What more could you ask. I'll tell you. There has to be a story as good as the talent who play it. If you put Jesus Christ in a bad script it would be a flop. You know why those religious theme pictures like Ben Hur and the Ten Commandments are so successful. Because the Bible is a ... good script.

I stood naked in front of my full length mirrors for a long time yesterday. I was all made up with my hair done. What did I see. My breasts are beginning to sag a bit. ... My waist isn't bad. My ass is what it should be, the best there is. Legs, knees and ankles still shapely. And my feet are not too big. OK, Marilyn, you have it all there. It is decision time.

If I have to do any more pictures for those ... at Fox, I am going to be the highest paid actress in Hollywood, double what they pay Taylor, and a piece of the gross. I'll choose the script, director and cast. The pictures will be box office hits. I'll put part of the millions I make in no-risk investments. The rest I'll use to finance my plan.

I'll take a year of day and night study of Shakespeare with Lee Strasberg. I'll pay him to work only with me. He said I could do Shakespeare. I'll make him prove it. That will give me the basics Olivier wanted. Then I'll go to Olivier for the help he promised. And I'll pay whatever he wants.

Then I'll produce and act in the Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival which will put his major plays on film. I'll need you to keep me together for a year or more. I'll pay you to be your only patient.

Oh, I made you another present. I have thrown all my ... pills in the toilet. You see how serious I am about this.

I've read all of Shakespeare and practiced a lot of lines. I won't have to worry about the scripts. I'll have the greatest script writer who ever lived working for me and I don't have to pay him.

Oh, Monroe will have her hand in. I am going to do Juliet first. Don't laugh. What with what make-up, costume and camera can do, my acting will create a Juliet who is 14, an innocent virgin, but whose budding womanhood is fantastically sexy.

I've some wonderful ideas for Lady Macbeth and Queen Gertrude. I feel certain I'll win an Oscar for one or more of my Shakespearean women.

Yes, Doctor, this is what I am going to do. I owe it to you, Doctor, that I can.

Marilyn Monroe is a soldier. Her Commander in Chief is the greatest and most powerful man in the world The first duty of a soldier is to obey her Commander in Chief. He says "do this." You do this. He says "do that." You do that.

This man is going to change our country. No child will go hungry. No person will sleep in the street and get his meals from garbage cans. People who can't afford it will get good medical care. Industrial products will be the best in the world. No, I'm not talking Utopia -- that's an illusion, but he will transform America today like FDR did in the 30's. You don't think you're hearing me do you. You're right. And he'll do for the world what he'll do for America — transform it for the better. I tell you, Doctor, when he has finished his achievements he will take his place with Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR as one of our greatest Presidents.

I'm glad he has Bobby. It's like the Navy. The President is the Captain and Bobby is his Executive Officer. Bobby would do absolutely anything for his brother. And so would I.

I'll never embarrass him. As long as I have memory I have John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

But Bobby, Doctor, what should I do about Bobby. As you see there is no room in my life for him. I guess I don't have the courage to face up to it and hurt him. I want someone else to tell him its over. I tried to get the President to do it, but I couldn't reach him. Now I'm glad I couldn't. He is too important to ask. You know when I sang Happy Birthday for him ... Maybe I should stop being a coward and tell him myself. But because I know how much he'll be hurt I don't have the strength to hurt him.

I think what's happened to Bobby is that he has stopped having good sex with his wife for some time. ... Well when he starts having sex with the body all men want, his Catholic morality has to find a way to justify cheating on his wife. So love becomes his excuse. And if you love enough, you can't help it and you can't be blamed. All right, Doctor, that's Marilyn Monroe's analysis of Bobby's love for me. And now I understand it for what it is, I'm not going to have any problem handling it myself . What is amazing is I solved my problem just through the free associating I did for you. ...

Well, that's something for you to sleep on, Doctor.

Good Night.
 
 

Did Hollywood's greatest female star really take her own life? Newly released transcripts of her final messages to a psychiatrist will only fuel the conspiracy theories. David Usborne reports
Published: 06 August 2005
Some mysteries never die even if they are meant never to be resolved. The death of Marilyn Monroe, found naked with her face down on her bed in her Los Angeles home 43 years ago yesterday, is one of those: was it really suicide, or something different? Only Marilyn herself could clear this one up.

But no one gets to speak from the grave, not even the biggest of all big Hollywood stars. Except that Marilyn has - sort of. Listen and you might be surprised and not just by the tittle-tattle about her faked orgasms, her enemas or her love-hate respect for Laurence Olivier. She talks like a person possessed but about the future, not by thoughts of death. She wants to love more, to act Shakespeare. (It is her plan to play Juliet and have sexual intercourse on stage with Romeo.) She is also plotting to fire her housekeeper.

It may be, in fact, that the entire mythology surrounding an actress who for the 15-year span of her film-making career stopped the hearts of men the world over - from ordinary cinema-goers to, it is said, a sitting American president - may be about to be re-written all because of a transcript of a tape she allegedly made very shortly before her death. A tape she handed over to her psychiatrist.

Responsible for causing this sudden upheaval in Monroe lore is John Miner, a former Los Angeles prosecutor who for some time has been telling researchers of the tape and of the written transcript he apparently made of it. Some authors have included some references to the transcript's contents in their works. But never before has anyone taken it seriously enough to broadcast it fully to the public.

But that changed yesterday when The Los Angeles Times, apparently confident enough in the credibility of Mr Miner, splashed the story on its front page to coincide with the 43rd anniversary of her passing. The significance of the lengthy text seems unmistakable: that she was not thinking about death at the time. Implication: her death was either accidental or prompted by a third party.

Mr Miner was in the District Attorney's office in Los Angeles at the time of her death - she was just 36 - and participated in her autopsy. It was during the investigation that he interviewed the psychiatrist, Dr Ralph Greenson, who revealed the existence of the tape, saying it was a gift from Ms Monroe just a few days before she died. He did not give the tapes to Mr Miner. He did allow him, however, to listen to them and take extensive notes - thence the transcripts that now come to light for all to read.

"There was no possible way this woman could have killed herself," Mr Miner argues. "She had very specific plans for her future. She knew exactly what she wanted to do. She was told by [acting coach] Lee Strasberg, maybe ill-advisedly, that she had Shakespeare in her and she was fascinated with the idea."

Arguments will break out over the reliability of Mr Miner, now 86, and, indeed, of the decision by The Los Angeles Times to run with his claims. His intention, it seems, is to persuade his successors in the DA's office once more to re-open the investigation into the actress's death. (Her body was found with a fatal overdose of the barbiturate Nembutal.) A brief stab at re-opening the affair was made in 1982. The DA's office said then that there remained "factual discrepancies" and "unanswered questions" in the case, but declined to open a criminal investigation.

Leave aside whether she killed herself, bungled her pill taking or was actually murdered. This text of personal musings (or, as she called them, " mental meanderings") on its own isn't going to put an end to the matter. But they do make a good read, especially if you are not already a Monroe fanatic. This reader didn't know she had been sleeping with Senator Robert Kennedy or that sex between her and Arthur Miller had been so lousy.

At the very end of the tape, she frets that Bobby Kennedy is in love with her and says she had thought about asking John F Kennedy, the President, to let him down gently. She decides against it, because "he is too important to ask". She goes on: "I think what happened to Bobby is that he has stopped having good sex with his wife for some time ... Well when he starts having sex with the body all men want, his Catholic morality has to find a way to justify cheating on his wife. So love becomes his excuse."

As ever, the currents of the actress's life were hardly smooth at the time. She had not long before been fired by the Fox studios, where she had been on contract to make Something's Got to Give. Fox had let her go for chronic lateness and drug dependency. And there was the hangover from two failed marriages, to Miller, the playwright, and to the baseball great, Joe DiMaggio. But if Ms Monroe was depressed at all, it apparently had nothing to do with her enduring ability to attract men. Though gravity was beginning to show, she was apparently still more or less satisfied with her extremely popular figure.

"I stood naked in front of my full-length mirrors for a long time yesterday. I was all made up with my hair done," she tells Dr Greenson. "What did I see? My breasts are a beginning to sag a bit. My waist isn't bad. My ass is what it should be, the bester there is. Legs, knees and ankles still shapely. And my feet are not too big. OK, Marilyn, you have it all there."

The purpose of making the tape appears to be to express gratitude to Dr Greenson, who died in 1979 and who has since been named by some biographers as a possible suspect in her death. She repeatedly credits him with helping her overcome neuroses, suggesting at one moment that she would love to become his daughter. (She expresses a similar fantasy over Clark Gable, recalling a dream where she is sitting on his knee.) Apparently, it was the doctor's success in giving her the ability to enjoy sex that she celebrates the most, however.

"What I told you is true when I first became your patient. I had never had an orgasm. I well remember you said an orgasm happens in the mind, not the genitals ..." The actress reminds the doctor of how he also instructed her on how best to stimulate herself. She recalled him telling her "when I did exactly what you told me to do I would have an orgasm ... What a difference a word makes. You said I would, not I could. Bless you Doctor. What you say is gospel to me.

"By now I've had lots of orgasms. Not only one, but two and three with a man who takes his time. I never cried so hard as I did after my first orgasm."

There are also passages that briefly dissect the failed marriages. Though she was Joe DiMaggio's wife for only nine months, in 1954, she makes clear her enduring affection for him. She admits, however, that she erred in marrying Miller. "Marrying him was my mistake, not his. He couldn't give me the attention, warmth and affection I need. It's not his nature. Arthur never credited me with much intelligence. He couldn't share his intellectual life with me. As bed partners, we were so-so. He was not that much interested; me faking with exceptional performances to get him more interested. You know I think his little Jewish father had more genuine affection for me than Arthur did."

Sex is part of what defined the public image of Monroe. No one will be much surprised that it weaves its way through so much of the transcript. Some may rock back, however, at the passages about sex with Joan Crawford.

"Oh yes, Crawford ... We went to Joan's bedroom ... Crawford had a gigantic orgasm and shrieked like a maniac ... Next time I saw Crawford she wanted another round. I told her straight out I didn't much enjoy doing it with a woman. After I turned her down, she became spiteful." Other items not to be forgotten: that while Monroe liked an occasional enema, Mae West depended on them. "She is given an enema every day and she has at least one orgasm a day ... Mae says her enemas and orgasms will keep her young until she is 100."

Slightly more serious in tone, though arguably no less startling, is Monroe's apparent determination to change gear professionally, and take on Shakespeare on film. Maybe this had to do with Monroe's belief that, after 30 films and one Golden Globe Award, for Some Like it Hot, the critics were still not taking her seriously. The plan, she says, is eventually to " produce and act in the Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival". She says she will dedicate a whole year to studying Shakespearean acting with Lee Strasberg and then will go to Olivier for additional help that he once promised her.

Monroe and Olivier had been in the film The Prince and the Showgirl. Her feelings for him seem a bit mixed. "The Prince was real ... He was superficial - no, that's not the word - supercilious, arrogant, a snob, conceited. Maybe a little bit anti-Semitic in the sense of some of my best friends are Jews. But, damn him, a great, great actor. She recalls a party where Olivier regales the guests with the Bard for two straight hours. " I sat and cried with joy for being so privileged," she says.

What you read in the supermarket queue may be gripping but is rarely believable. The Monroe transcripts may seem to fall in that category. But it is not just The Los Angeles Times that takes them seriously. Parts of the text were also used by the British author Matthew Smith for his book Marilyn's Last Words: Her Secret Tapes and Mysterious Death. He remains convinced Mr Miner is credible. "I believe he is a man of integrity. I've looked at the contents of the tapes, of course, and, frankly, I would think it entirely impossible for John Miner to have invented what he put forward - absolutely impossible."

Similarly convinced is James Bacon, 91, a former columnist who saw Monroe shortly before she died. She was drinking vodka and champagne and popping pills. But Mr Bacon, who took part in a symposium last night in Los Angeles dedicated to exploring alternatives to the suicide theory, insisted: " She wasn't the least bit depressed. She was talking about going to Mexico. She had a Mexican boyfriend at the time. I forget his name. This was the first house she ever owned. She was going to buy some furniture. She was in very good spirits that day. Of course, the champagne and vodka helped."

You are the only person I have never lied to

Dear Doctor, you have given me everything. Because of you I can now feel what I never felt before ...

Isn't it true that the key to analysis is free association. Marilyn Monroe associates. You, my doctor, by understanding and interpretation of what goes on in my mind get to my unconscious, which makes it possible for you to treat my neuroses and for me to overcome them.

You are the only person in the world I have never told a lie to and never will ...

Oh yes, dreams. I know they are important. But you want me to free associate about the dream elements. I have the same blanking out. More resistance for you and Dr Freud to complain about.

I read his "Introductory Lectures", God, what a genius. He makes it so understandable. And he is so right. Didn't he say himself that Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky had a better understanding of psychology than all the scientists put together. Damn it, they do.

You told me to read Molly Bloom's mental meanderings (I can use words, can't I) to get a feeling for free association. It was when I did that I got my great idea.

As I read it something bothered me. Here is Joyce writing what a woman thinks to herself . Can he, does he really know her innermost thoughts. But after I read the whole book, I could better understand that Joyce is an artist who could penetrate the souls of people, male or female. It really doesn't matter that Joyce doesn't have ... or never felt a menstrual cramp. Wait a minute. As you must have guessed I am free associating and you are going to hear a lot of bad language. Because of my respect for you, I've never been able to say the words I'm really thinking when we are in session. But now I am going to say whatever I think, no matter what it is.

While reading Molly's blathering, the IDEA came to me. Get a tape recorder. Put a tape in. Turn it on. Say whatever you are thinking like I am doing now. It's really easy. I'm lying on my bed wearing only a brassiere. If I want to go to the refrig or the bathroom, push the stop button and begin again when I want to.

And I just free associate. No problem. You get the idea, don't you? Patient can't do it in Doctor's office. Patient is at home with tape recorder ...

Well, that's something for you to sleep on, Doctor.

Good Night.

Some mysteries never die even if they are meant never to be resolved. The death of Marilyn Monroe, found naked with her face down on her bed in her Los Angeles home 43 years ago yesterday, is one of those: was it really suicide, or something different? Only Marilyn herself could clear this one up.

But no one gets to speak from the grave, not even the biggest of all big Hollywood stars. Except that Marilyn has - sort of. Listen and you might be surprised and not just by the tittle-tattle about her faked orgasms, her enemas or her love-hate respect for Laurence Olivier. She talks like a person possessed but about the future, not by thoughts of death. She wants to love more, to act Shakespeare. (It is her plan to play Juliet and have sexual intercourse on stage with Romeo.) She is also plotting to fire her housekeeper.

It may be, in fact, that the entire mythology surrounding an actress who for the 15-year span of her film-making career stopped the hearts of men the world over - from ordinary cinema-goers to, it is said, a sitting American president - may be about to be re-written all because of a transcript of a tape she allegedly made very shortly before her death. A tape she handed over to her psychiatrist.

Responsible for causing this sudden upheaval in Monroe lore is John Miner, a former Los Angeles prosecutor who for some time has been telling researchers of the tape and of the written transcript he apparently made of it. Some authors have included some references to the transcript's contents in their works. But never before has anyone taken it seriously enough to broadcast it fully to the public.

But that changed yesterday when The Los Angeles Times, apparently confident enough in the credibility of Mr Miner, splashed the story on its front page to coincide with the 43rd anniversary of her passing. The significance of the lengthy text seems unmistakable: that she was not thinking about death at the time. Implication: her death was either accidental or prompted by a third party.

Mr Miner was in the District Attorney's office in Los Angeles at the time of her death - she was just 36 - and participated in her autopsy. It was during the investigation that he interviewed the psychiatrist, Dr Ralph Greenson, who revealed the existence of the tape, saying it was a gift from Ms Monroe just a few days before she died. He did not give the tapes to Mr Miner. He did allow him, however, to listen to them and take extensive notes - thence the transcripts that now come to light for all to read.

"There was no possible way this woman could have killed herself," Mr Miner argues. "She had very specific plans for her future. She knew exactly what she wanted to do. She was told by [acting coach] Lee Strasberg, maybe ill-advisedly, that she had Shakespeare in her and she was fascinated with the idea."

Arguments will break out over the reliability of Mr Miner, now 86, and, indeed, of the decision by The Los Angeles Times to run with his claims. His intention, it seems, is to persuade his successors in the DA's office once more to re-open the investigation into the actress's death. (Her body was found with a fatal overdose of the barbiturate Nembutal.) A brief stab at re-opening the affair was made in 1982. The DA's office said then that there remained "factual discrepancies" and "unanswered questions" in the case, but declined to open a criminal investigation.

Leave aside whether she killed herself, bungled her pill taking or was actually murdered. This text of personal musings (or, as she called them, " mental meanderings") on its own isn't going to put an end to the matter. But they do make a good read, especially if you are not already a Monroe fanatic. This reader didn't know she had been sleeping with Senator Robert Kennedy or that sex between her and Arthur Miller had been so lousy.

At the very end of the tape, she frets that Bobby Kennedy is in love with her and says she had thought about asking John F Kennedy, the President, to let him down gently. She decides against it, because "he is too important to ask". She goes on: "I think what happened to Bobby is that he has stopped having good sex with his wife for some time ... Well when he starts having sex with the body all men want, his Catholic morality has to find a way to justify cheating on his wife. So love becomes his excuse."

As ever, the currents of the actress's life were hardly smooth at the time. She had not long before been fired by the Fox studios, where she had been on contract to make Something's Got to Give. Fox had let her go for chronic lateness and drug dependency. And there was the hangover from two failed marriages, to Miller, the playwright, and to the baseball great, Joe DiMaggio. But if Ms Monroe was depressed at all, it apparently had nothing to do with her enduring ability to attract men. Though gravity was beginning to show, she was apparently still more or less satisfied with her extremely popular figure.

"I stood naked in front of my full-length mirrors for a long time yesterday. I was all made up with my hair done," she tells Dr Greenson. "What did I see? My breasts are a beginning to sag a bit. My waist isn't bad. My ass is what it should be, the bester there is. Legs, knees and ankles still shapely. And my feet are not too big. OK, Marilyn, you have it all there."

The purpose of making the tape appears to be to express gratitude to Dr Greenson, who died in 1979 and who has since been named by some biographers as a possible suspect in her death. She repeatedly credits him with helping her overcome neuroses, suggesting at one moment that she would love to become his daughter. (She expresses a similar fantasy over Clark Gable, recalling a dream where she is sitting on his knee.) Apparently, it was the doctor's success in giving her the ability to enjoy sex that she celebrates the most, however.

"What I told you is true when I first became your patient. I had never had an orgasm. I well remember you said an orgasm happens in the mind, not the genitals ..." The actress reminds the doctor of how he also instructed her on how best to stimulate herself. She recalled him telling her "when I did exactly what you told me to do I would have an orgasm ... What a difference a word makes. You said I would, not I could. Bless you Doctor. What you say is gospel to me.
"By now I've had lots of orgasms. Not only one, but two and three with a man who takes his time. I never cried so hard as I did after my first orgasm."

There are also passages that briefly dissect the failed marriages. Though she was Joe DiMaggio's wife for only nine months, in 1954, she makes clear her enduring affection for him. She admits, however, that she erred in marrying Miller. "Marrying him was my mistake, not his. He couldn't give me the attention, warmth and affection I need. It's not his nature. Arthur never credited me with much intelligence. He couldn't share his intellectual life with me. As bed partners, we were so-so. He was not that much interested; me faking with exceptional performances to get him more interested. You know I think his little Jewish father had more genuine affection for me than Arthur did."

Sex is part of what defined the public image of Monroe. No one will be much surprised that it weaves its way through so much of the transcript. Some may rock back, however, at the passages about sex with Joan Crawford.

"Oh yes, Crawford ... We went to Joan's bedroom ... Crawford had a gigantic orgasm and shrieked like a maniac ... Next time I saw Crawford she wanted another round. I told her straight out I didn't much enjoy doing it with a woman. After I turned her down, she became spiteful." Other items not to be forgotten: that while Monroe liked an occasional enema, Mae West depended on them. "She is given an enema every day and she has at least one orgasm a day ... Mae says her enemas and orgasms will keep her young until she is 100."

Slightly more serious in tone, though arguably no less startling, is Monroe's apparent determination to change gear professionally, and take on Shakespeare on film. Maybe this had to do with Monroe's belief that, after 30 films and one Golden Globe Award, for Some Like it Hot, the critics were still not taking her seriously. The plan, she says, is eventually to " produce and act in the Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival". She says she will dedicate a whole year to studying Shakespearean acting with Lee Strasberg and then will go to Olivier for additional help that he once promised her.

Monroe and Olivier had been in the film The Prince and the Showgirl. Her feelings for him seem a bit mixed. "The Prince was real ... He was superficial - no, that's not the word - supercilious, arrogant, a snob, conceited. Maybe a little bit anti-Semitic in the sense of some of my best friends are Jews. But, damn him, a great, great actor. She recalls a party where Olivier regales the guests with the Bard for two straight hours. " I sat and cried with joy for being so privileged," she says.

What you read in the supermarket queue may be gripping but is rarely believable. The Monroe transcripts may seem to fall in that category. But it is not just The Los Angeles Times that takes them seriously. Parts of the text were also used by the British author Matthew Smith for his book Marilyn's Last Words: Her Secret Tapes and Mysterious Death. He remains convinced Mr Miner is credible. "I believe he is a man of integrity. I've looked at the contents of the tapes, of course, and, frankly, I would think it entirely impossible for John Miner to have invented what he put forward - absolutely impossible."

Similarly convinced is James Bacon, 91, a former columnist who saw Monroe shortly before she died. She was drinking vodka and champagne and popping pills. But Mr Bacon, who took part in a symposium last night in Los Angeles dedicated to exploring alternatives to the suicide theory, insisted: " She wasn't the least bit depressed. She was talking about going to Mexico. She had a Mexican boyfriend at the time. I forget his name. This was the first house she ever owned. She was going to buy some furniture. She was in very good spirits that day. Of course, the champagne and vodka helped."

You are the only person I have never lied to

Dear Doctor, you have given me everything. Because of you I can now feel what I never felt before ...

Isn't it true that the key to analysis is free association. Marilyn Monroe associates. You, my doctor, by understanding and interpretation of what goes on in my mind get to my unconscious, which makes it possible for you to treat my neuroses and for me to overcome them.

You are the only person in the world I have never told a lie to and never will ...

Oh yes, dreams. I know they are important. But you want me to free associate about the dream elements. I have the same blanking out. More resistance for you and Dr Freud to complain about.

I read his "Introductory Lectures", God, what a genius. He makes it so understandable. And he is so right. Didn't he say himself that Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky had a better understanding of psychology than all the scientists put together. Damn it, they do.

You told me to read Molly Bloom's mental meanderings (I can use words, can't I) to get a feeling for free association. It was when I did that I got my great idea.

As I read it something bothered me. Here is Joyce writing what a woman thinks to herself . Can he, does he really know her innermost thoughts. But after I read the whole book, I could better understand that Joyce is an artist who could penetrate the souls of people, male or female. It really doesn't matter that Joyce doesn't have ... or never felt a menstrual cramp. Wait a minute. As you must have guessed I am free associating and you are going to hear a lot of bad language. Because of my respect for you, I've never been able to say the words I'm really thinking when we are in session. But now I am going to say whatever I think, no matter what it is.

While reading Molly's blathering, the IDEA came to me. Get a tape recorder. Put a tape in. Turn it on. Say whatever you are thinking like I am doing now. It's really easy. I'm lying on my bed wearing only a brassiere. If I want to go to the refrig or the bathroom, push the stop button and begin again when I want to.

And I just free associate. No problem. You get the idea, don't you? Patient can't do it in Doctor's office. Patient is at home with tape recorder ...

Well, that's something for you to sleep on, Doctor.

Good Night.
 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

New Chapter in the Mystery of Marilyn: Her Own Words? By Robert W. Welkos Times Staff Writer
Fri Aug 5, 7:55 AM ET
 
 

It remains one of Hollywood's most compelling, and unforgettable, mysteries.

On Aug. 5, 1962, the body of Marilyn Monroe was found in the bedroom of her Brentwood home. The 36-year-old movie star was naked and facedown on her bed.

An autopsy conducted by Dr. Thomas Noguchi, then deputy medical examiner, concluded that death was due to acute barbiturate poisoning, and a psychiatric team tied to the investigation termed it a "probable suicide."

Today, 43 years later, fans from around the world will gather, as they have for decades, near Monroe's crypt at Westwood Village Memorial Park to celebrate her life and mourn her death. John W. Miner, 86, will mourn too.

But there is bitterness and frustration as well for the former Los Angeles County prosecutor, who was at her autopsy and was one of those looking into her death. He didn't believe that the actress took her life in '62 and he doesn't believe it now, and Miner says he's heard secret tapes that Monroe made in the days before she died that prove the actress was anything but suicidal.

Whether Monroe died by her own hand has been debated and dissected by books, documentaries, conspiracy theorists, and Hollywood and Washington insiders alike for years.

Enough credence was given to the various reports that in 1982, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office reexamined the case. Miner, by then in private practice, was among those interviewed.

The resulting report notes that Miner mentioned the tapes. However, he did not say he had a transcript. Although the report concedes that "factual discrepancies" and "unanswered questions" remained in the case, it did not find enough evidence to warrant launching a criminal investigation.

As head of the D.A.'s medical-legal section when Monroe died, Miner had met with the actress' psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson. During the interview, Miner says, Greenson played the Monroe tapes, but only on condition that the investigator never reveal their contents.

Miner said he took "extensive" and "nearly verbatim" notes, and only broke the promise years after Greenson's death, when some Monroe biographers suggested that the psychiatrist be considered a suspect in her death. Miner recently gave a copy of the transcript to The Times.

Miner's transcript shows Monroe obsessing about the Oscars, describing a sexual encounter with Joan Crawford, craving a father's love from Clark Gable, yearning to be taken seriously as an actress by contemplating doing Shakespeare, and speaking candidly about why her marriages to baseball slugger Joe DiMaggio and playwright Arthur Miller ended in divorce.

At one point, she describes standing naked in front of her full-length mirror assessing the body that captivated the world, knowing that she is slipping into middle age, and commenting that "my breasts are beginning to sag a bit" but "my waist isn't bad" and her buttocks are still "the best."

"You are the only person who will ever know the most private, the most secret thoughts of Marilyn Monroe," she tells Greenson, according to Miner's transcript. "I have absolute confidence and trust you will never reveal to a living soul what I say to you."

Miner contends that anyone reading the transcript would conclude that "there was no possible way this woman could have killed herself. She had very specific plans for her future. She knew exactly what she wanted to do. She was told by [acting coach] Lee Strasberg, maybe ill-advisedly, that she had Shakespeare in her and she was fascinated with the idea."

Miner has shown the transcript to several authors in recent years. In British author Matthew Smith's book "Marilyn's Last Words: Her Secret Tapes and Mysterious Death," the excerpts cover the early portion of the tapes, which have Monroe musing on Freud and free association, orgasms, Gable and her agent, Johnny Hyde. Seymour M. Hersh included a short reference to the late President Kennedy in "The Dark Side of Camelot."

Miner was also interviewed for a 1997 ABC documentary called "Dangerous World: The Kennedy Years," but ultimately no excerpts from the transcript were used.

The previously unpublished portions of the transcript include descriptions of her feelings for her ex-husbands, a dissection of why her marriages failed, a racy catalog of supposed sexual encounters, details of her dispute with 20th Century Fox, her friendship with Frank Sinatra, and her complaints about housekeeper Eunice Murray, who would discover her body.

Smith and Hersh, along with the documentary's producer, Mark Obenhaus, said in interviews this week that they found Miner credible.

But to accept Miner's story, one must make a leap of faith — he is the only one still alive who claims to have heard the tapes. Greenson died in 1979, and Miner believes that he destroyed the tapes.

"It's like a one-sourced story," Obenhaus said. "You have one guy; he's a credible guy, but he's just one guy."

Smith, who said he paid Miner a fee, which he declined to disclose, for use of the Monroe transcript, added: "I believe he is a man of integrity. I've looked at the contents of the tapes, of course, and, frankly, I would think it entirely impossible for John Miner to have invented what he put forward — absolutely impossible."

Ronald H. "Mike" Carroll, a former L.A. County deputy district attorney who conducted the 1982 review of Monroe's death, said he and a D.A.'s investigator interviewed Miner for their report and, although he mentioned that Greenson had tapes of the actress, there was no hint that Miner had a transcript.

Carroll, the No. 3 prosecutor in the D.A.'s office at the time, who has since retired, said that had he any inkling that Miner was harboring the transcript, he would have obtained a grand jury subpoena to force Miner to hand them over so that he could include them in his report.

Miner said he couldn't speak about the transcript then because of his promise to Greenson. "Greenson … was absolutely committed to protecting the privacy of his patients," Miner recalled. "He felt he could not let me see what she had said if there was any possibility that her privacy would be violated." So Miner gave his word.

When some suggested that Greenson himself was the actress' killer, Miner went to the psychiatrist's widow and asked for permission to be released from the promise.

Greenson's widow, Hildegard, told The Times this week that she didn't know if the tapes existed and never heard her husband discuss them. Still, she does not discount that Monroe may have given her husband such tapes and that he played them for Miner.

"That seems like something my husband would do," she said. "He might want to play it to show how she felt and what was going on with her." At the time of the recordings, Monroe was living an unsettled life. There was the rumor of a romance with Kennedy, fueled by her appearance at a birthday tribute on May 19 at Madison Square Garden where she sang the now legendary "Happy Birthday, Mr. President." Studio bosses at 20th Century Fox had dropped her from the film "Something's Got to Give" because of chronic lateness and drug dependency.

No one has established the exact date that the recordings were made, although the JFK reference would put it after her singing tribute, a little more than two months before she died.

Smith says his research suggests that Monroe gave the psychiatrist the tapes Aug. 4. According to Miner, Greenson's sole purpose in playing the tapes for him was to help establish her state of mind at the time of her death, "so they were made pretty close to the time she died."

Hollywood columnist James Bacon, now 91, who met Monroe when she was an unknown in 1949 and would later become a close friend, was at Monroe's house five days before she died.

"She was drinking champagne and straight vodka and occasionally popping a pill," Bacon told The Times. "I said, 'Marilyn, the combination of pills and alcohol will kill you.' And she said, 'It hasn't killed me yet.' Then she took another drink and popped another pill. I know at night she took barbiturates."

But Bacon added: "She wasn't the least bit depressed. She was talking about going to Mexico. She had a Mexican boyfriend at the time. I forget his name. This was the first house she ever owned. She was going to buy some furniture. She was in very good spirits that day — of course, the champagne and vodka helped."

In the transcript, Monroe uses what therapists call "free association," saying whatever came into her mind. "Isn't it true that the key to analysis is free association?" she says. "Marilyn Monroe associates. You, my doctor, by understanding and interpretation of what goes on in my mind, get to my unconscious, which makes it possible for you to treat my neuroses and for me to overcome them."

"And you are going to hear bad language," she warns Greenson.

Although Monroe often came across on screen as a ditzy blond, in her tapes, she discusses Freud's "Introductory Lectures" ("God, what a genius," she remarks. "He makes it so understandable"), and author James Joyce ("Joyce is an artist who could penetrate the souls of people, male or female"), and says she has read all of Shakespeare.

She talks about her admiration for Gable, her co-star in "The Misfits": "In the kissing scenes, I kissed him with real affection. I didn't want to go to bed with him, but I wanted him to know how much I liked and appreciated him."

And she lambasted members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for not giving Gable an Oscar for "Gone With the Wind," noting that never was an actor on screen more romantic. She says she cried for two days after learning that Gable had died.

Her love for DiMaggio was undimmed. "I love him and always will," she says. "But Joe couldn't stay married to Marilyn Monroe, the famous movie star. Joe has an image in his stubborn Italian head of a traditional Italian wife. She would have to be faithful, do what he tells her, devote all of herself to him. Doctor, you know that's not me."

It was different with Miller. "Marrying him was my mistake, not his. He couldn't give me the attention, warmth and affection I need. It's not in his nature. Arthur never credited me with much intelligence. He couldn't share his intellectual life with me. As bed partners, we were so-so."

Of her one-night affair with Joan Crawford, she said: "Next time I saw Crawford, she wanted another round. I told her straight-out I didn't much enjoy doing it with a woman. After I turned her down, she became spiteful."

In the tapes, Monroe heaps praise on Kennedy, and there is no suggestion that the two were ever lovers. "This man is going to change our country," she says of JFK, adding, "He will transform America today like FDR did in the '30s."

As for the president's brother, Robert F. Kennedy, the U.S. attorney general at the time: "As you see, there is no room in my life for him. I guess I don't have the courage to face up to it and hurt him. I want someone else to tell him it's over. I tried to get the president to do it, but I couldn't reach him."

In the transcripts, Monroe says she needs Greenson's help in getting her housekeeper another job. "Doctor, I want you to help me get rid of Murray…. I can't flat out fire her. Next thing would be a book 'Secrets of Marilyn Monroe by Her Housekeeper.' She'd make a fortune spilling what she knows and she knows too damn much."

As he listened to Monroe's voice that day in 1962, Miner said, he became "very moved."

"You'd have to be without capacity for empathy or emotion" if you weren't moved, he said.

Miner, who collaborated with Dr. Seymour Pollack to create the USC Institute of Psychiatry, Law and Behavioral Science in 1963 and taught there over the years, said he would like to see a "re-autopsy" conducted to clear up medical questions that he noticed in the original.

"The autopsy clearly shows that the barbiturates — of a massive amount — that entered her body came in through the large intestine," he said. "How do we know that? We know that because there is no indication, in fact there is contraindication, that the capsules were swallowed."

He believes that had Monroe swallowed 30 or more capsules, "she would have absorbed enough of the barbiturates to kill her before it was all dissolved."

He also discounts the possibility that she was given a "hot shot" injection of the drugs since neither he nor Noguchi could find any sign of needle marks on her body. (Both the original autopsy report and the 1982 review came to the same conclusion.)

Miner had hoped to get Noguchi's support for another autopsy. Noguchi's attorney, Godfrey Isaac, said the former coroner was traveling in Asia and could not be reached for comment.

It is Miner's theory that the actress took or was given chloral hydrate to render her unconscious — possibly in a soft drink — and someone then dissolved Nembutal in water by breaking open 30 or more capsules and administered the lethal solution by enema.

He said that he and Noguchi noticed a discoloration of the large intestine in the original autopsy and that there is a possibility that if the body were exhumed, tissue samples could be taken to determine if she had been given an enema filled with enough drugs to be toxic.

Carroll said he had no objections to another autopsy and stressed that he had "no vested interest" in the outcome.

But he noted that in his review, he talked to an independent expert, Dr. Boyd G. Stephens, former chief medical examiner-coroner for the city and county of San Francisco, who said the amount of Nembutal in the liver was about twice as much as in the blood, suggesting that the person lived for "quite a period of time" after ingesting the drugs.

Carroll told The Times that if Monroe had an enema containing the drugs, it would have gotten into her system rapidly and "you wouldn't expect it to have that ratio in the liver."

The D.A.'s review concluded that "the cumulative evidence available to us fails to support any theory of criminal conduct relating to her death."